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Thread: Test P/Dbol/Proviron Short Cycle - 2weeks Alternate x 3 (Bill Roberts Protocol)

  1. #1
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    Test P/Dbol/Proviron Short Cycle - 2weeks Alternate x 3 (Bill Roberts Protocol)

    Hi all,

    Second cycle and second post.
    I am fairly new to cycling as I have done only one, however I have done extensive research throughout the years.

    Here is the cycle I have done last year:
    12 weeks long

    week 1-12 400mg Test E (200mg twice a week)

    week 8-14 Var 50mg ed

    week 4-13 HCG 250 iu twice a week


    PCT:
    
Week 14-20 Clomid
    day 1-2 / 6 ed (2+2+2 after meals)

    day 3-12 / 2 ed
    
day 13-43 / 1 ed

    Age: 38

    High: 1.93cm / 6’3’’

    Weight: 98kg / 216 lbs

    Diet and training were both in place. Loved the pumps and strength. The Var addition to the end was great as it gave me that hard look and vascularity I was looking for. 
I have gained 3kg and lost 2kg. I wasn’t expecting massive gains nor massive losses. Overall, I know I haven't gained much but I am fairly happy with it as I have gained insights on how my body reacts to the gear. PCT ended mid-July 2016.

    I am now researching to put together my next cycle and I have come to a conclusion that short cycles will give me a god ratio between gains and sides. I know there is contradicting information out there, some people are more comfortable with an 8 weeks cycle, some others with 4. However, I like very much the Bill Roberts’ short cycles approach for the reasons mentioned above.
I am 39 and I think I should give the right amount of consideration to the gains and even more to the possible sides.

    My stats now are as follows:

    Age: 39
    
High: 1.93cm / 6’3’’

    Weight: 99kg / 218 lbs

    BFP: 10% (measure two days ago)

    I have done blood works; kidney and liver functions are fine, HDL and LDL are fine too except for HDL ratio, 4.15 which is above the max recommended, 4. I have modified my diet to tackle this issue and hopefully it will be fixed before I am starting. I am also positive about the fact that short cycles, due to the length, have limited impact on lipids. E2 and Testosterone are all within the recommended ranges. I will use this results as a baseline and plan to take another blood test at 11 days into the first two weeks cycle and use that as a reference for the following two weekers.

    The protocol I am following will be (2on, 2off, 2on, 2off, 2on, 4off). See images below.

    Screen Shot 2016-11-23 at 16.13.11.jpg
    Screen Shot 2016-11-23 at 16.13.50.jpg

    I have added HCG to be on the safe side, as the cycle alternation might have a negative impact on the HPTA by the end of it.

    I have also added Aromasine for two reasons. First, because I will be using drugs which aromatise highly, being Test P and dbol, so water retention will surely be an issue. I am also aiming to avoid the rebounce effect. Not so much bothered about gyno as I had to have my glands removed when I was a teenager. I think the dose will be sufficient to keep the E2 at the right levels but I will be able to see more based on future sides if any and blood test once I am on.

    For the PCT, I have opted for Clomid over Nolva as I have some left form the previous cycle and didn’t give me any side last time I used it.

    I am planning to repeat this cycle by three times with the option to add VAR to the seocnd and third 2 weekers.

    I would very much appreciate any feedback from the community in regards to the, stacking, the doses and the two weekers cycles in general.

    Thanks for your help
    Last edited by robinodd; 11-23-2016 at 05:09 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinodd View Post
    Hi all,

    Second cycle and second post.
    I am fairly new to cycling as I have done only one, however I have done extensive research throughout the years.

    Here is the cycle I have done last year:
    12 weeks long

    week 1-12 400mg Test E (200mg twice a week)

    week 8-14 Var 50mg ed

    week 4-13 HCG 250 iu twice a week


    PCT:
    
Week 14-20 Clomid
    day 1-2 / 6 ed (2+2+2 after meals)

    day 3-12 / 2 ed
    
day 13-43 / 1 ed

    Age: 38

    High: 1.93cm / 6’3’’

    Weight: 98kg / 216 lbs

    Diet and training were both in place. Loved the pumps and strength. The Var addition to the end was great as it gave me that hard look and vascularity I was looking for. 
I have gained 3kg and lost 2kg. I wasn’t expecting massive gains nor massive losses. Overall, I know I haven't gained much but I am fairly happy with it as I have gained insights on how my body reacts to the gear. PCT ended mid-July 2016.

    I am now researching to put together my next cycle and I have come to a conclusion that short cycles will give me a god ratio between gains and sides. I know there is contradicting information out there, some people are more comfortable with an 8 weeks cycle, some others with 4. However, I like very much the Bill Roberts’ short cycles approach for the reasons mentioned above.
I am 39 and I think I should give the right amount of consideration to the gains and even more to the possible sides.

    My stats now are as follows:

    Age: 39
    
High: 1.93cm / 6’3’’

    Weight: 99kg / 218 lbs

    BFP: 10% (measure two days ago)

    I have done blood works; kidney and liver functions are fine, HDL and LDL are fine too except for HDL ratio, 4.15 which is above the max recommended, 4. I have modified my diet to tackle this issue and hopefully it will be fixed before I am starting. I am also positive about the fact that short cycles, due to the length, have limited impact on lipids. E2 and Testosterone are all within the recommended ranges. I will use this results as a baseline and plan to take another blood test at 11 days into the first two weeks cycle and use that as a reference for the following two weekers.

    The protocol I am following will be (2on, 2off, 2on, 2off, 2on, 4off). See images below.




    I have added HCG to be on the safe side, as the cycle alternation might have a negative impact on the HPTA by the end of it.

    I have also added Aromasine for two reasons. First, because I will be using drugs which aromatise highly, being Test P and dbol, so water retention will surely be an issue. I am also aiming to avoid the rebounce effect. Not so much bothered about gyno as I had to have my glands removed when I was a teenager. I think the dose will be sufficient to keep the E2 at the right levels but I will be able to see more based on future sides if any and blood test once I am on.

    For the PCT, I have opted for Clomid over Nolva as I have some left form the previous cycle and didn’t give me any side last time I used it.

    I am planning to repeat this cycle by three times with the option to add VAR to the seocnd and third 2 weekers.

    I would very much appreciate any feedback from the community in regards to the, stacking, the doses and the two weekers cycles in general.

    Thanks for your help
    Sorry, I don't care what Bill Roberts says, 2 weeks of steroids isn't going to do shit.

    Run this cycle for 6-8 weeks IMO.
    warmouth likes this.

  3. #3
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    I wasn’t convinced either about the length of the cycle, 2 weeks almost feels like Capo described it, as ‘’leaving the party before the guests arrive’’.

    Find below a few links which made me think and partially convinced about this type of protocol.
    The main principle behind the 2/3 weekers is really to keep the sides to the minimum, of course there must be gains too or what’s the point of all this otherwise.

    The amount of benefit from a cycle this short are undeniable, you can read more about them here:
    SHORT CYCLES good gains-less sides

    Also, I am going to report a couple of interesting points from a post I have read:

    ‘’Short cycles will allow a much quicker HPTA recovery than a long cycle and this allows one to kepp a higher percentage of ones gains. In fact full Testosterone rebound often happens in but a week. Gains often continue in the weeks after the short cycle is over simply because ones natural test production often jumps a little higher than normal becuase the pituitary really hammers out the LH and the testes have not shunk.’’
    (https://forums.t-nation.com/t/steroi...-cycles/148303)

    ‘’Roberts believes that after two weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited and not just the testes and hypothalamus and thus he recommends 14 days "on" as the limit IF you are striving for very rapid HPTA recovery.’’
    (https://forums.t-nation.com/t/steroi...-cycles/148303)

    The whole post above is really worth a read and explains how these very short cycles work.

    This is a good one too:
    2-3 Week Short Steroid Cycles with Test Propionate ,dianabol, Winstrol , Anadrol Tren

    …and this is a log from a guy who’s done it:
    https://forums.t-nation.com/t/2-on-2...-dbol/175492/6

  4. #4
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    The HPTA will become inhibited after 1-2 weeks of steroid usage, especially compounds such as Test, Deca, Tren. If you take 1-2 weeks off, your HPTA will not recover, then you're going to hit it again with suppression. These inhibit, rest, inhibit, repeat will catch up with you and you will get side effects similar to a full blown 8-10 weeks cycle.

    Gains will stop when androgen feels decline, thats when you stop using steroids, they don't continue after you have stopped.

    Run an 8 week cycle and use HCG to keep the tests from inhibiting. Then do a SERM PCT treatment.

    Also, the yo-yoing of "on" "off" is going to damage your HPTA. Many now suggest doing TRT after using steroids and cruising at 100-150mg/wk. The on and off protocol of cycling steroids for 12 weeks on, time on + PCT = time off - works, but it causes long term damage IMO.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    The HPTA will become inhibited after 1-2 weeks of steroid usage, especially compounds such as Test, Deca, Tren. If you take 1-2 weeks off, your HPTA will not recover, then you're going to hit it again with suppression. These inhibit, rest, inhibit, repeat will catch up with you and you will get side effects similar to a full blown 8-10 weeks cycle.

    Gains will stop when androgen feels decline, thats when you stop using steroids, they don't continue after you have stopped.

    Run an 8 week cycle and use HCG to keep the tests from inhibiting. Then do a SERM PCT treatment.

    Also, the yo-yoing of "on" "off" is going to damage your HPTA. Many now suggest doing TRT after using steroids and cruising at 100-150mg/wk. The on and off protocol of cycling steroids for 12 weeks on, time on + PCT = time off - works, but it causes long term damage IMO.

    In the 2 weekers scenario it does make a huge difference to establish if the HPTA is inhibited after 1 or 2 weeks. The cycle is limited to two weeks as it is believed that that is the time it takes for the suppression to start, passed these two weeks, than you might as well go for the full 8 weeks cycle. Assuming suppression starts in two weeks, then recovery will be minimal, hence why some people don't even do a PCT. Natural T production should be back in no time as theoretically never stopped in the first place.

    I have added PCT and Clomid to the plan to be on the safe side as I haven't found proven data that this plans works.

    Am I missing something?
    Last edited by robinodd; 11-25-2016 at 12:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinodd View Post
    In the 2 weekers scenario it does make a huge difference to establish if the HPTA is inhibited after 1 or 2 weeks. The cycle is limited to two weeks as it is believed that that is the time it takes for the suppression to start, passed these two weeks, than you might as well go for the full 8 weeks cycle. Assuming suppression starts in two weeks, then recovery will be minimal, hence why some people don't even do a PCT. Natural T production should be back in no time as theoretically never stopped in the first place.

    I have added PCT and Clomid to the plan to be on the safe side as I haven't found proven data that this plans works.

    Am I missing something?
    Your hormones will be all over the place and side effects like acne may become evident.

    I don't like the sound of 2 weeks on/off cycles, but good luck.

  7. #7
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    If Bill Roberts says it's good, I always believe the opposite of anything the guy says. I honestly don't believe hes ever ran steroids in any comprehensive way. I can promise that a single shot of Deca can suppress the HPTA after 1 or 2 injections. I have first hand evidence because it slammed mine after the very first week. I can only imagine tren would be worse. But in the case that you're claiming that steroids become suppressive after the 2 weeks, then coming off for 2, then starting up, would be devistating to every physiological component of the body. You stop as the body is being supressed, then expect a rebound in 2 weeks, then another borderline suppression. This is why Bill Roberts is considered a joke by people who do this as a lifestyle. I think he wants people to experiment with what he claims so he can get feedback. I've always thought that. The only way one could justify doing something as careless as this would be if they were on TRT. I am, and I have done many experiments, but never anything for 2 weeks because I know nothing will happen physically in 2 weeks, save for a little strength (maybe). I've seen some radical things posted by Roberts. I would take what he says with a grain of salt. That's honest.
    Admin likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmouth View Post
    If Bill Roberts says it's good, I always believe the opposite of anything the guy says. I honestly don't believe hes ever ran steroids in any comprehensive way. I can promise that a single shot of Deca can suppress the HPTA after 1 or 2 injections. I have first hand evidence because it slammed mine after the very first week. I can only imagine tren would be worse. But in the case that you're claiming that steroids become suppressive after the 2 weeks, then coming off for 2, then starting up, would be devistating to every physiological component of the body. You stop as the body is being supressed, then expect a rebound in 2 weeks, then another borderline suppression. This is why Bill Roberts is considered a joke by people who do this as a lifestyle. I think he wants people to experiment with what he claims so he can get feedback. I've always thought that. The only way one could justify doing something as careless as this would be if they were on TRT. I am, and I have done many experiments, but never anything for 2 weeks because I know nothing will happen physically in 2 weeks, save for a little strength (maybe). I've seen some radical things posted by Roberts. I would take what he says with a grain of salt. That's honest.
    Agreed.

    These types of cycles are like diet fads and help him sell his latest book.

  9. #9
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    Hi guys,

    So, I have taken on board all your advices and I have decided to drop the 2 weekers for a slightly longer cycle.
    I have decided to keep it short but long enough to see some results if it makes sense. Ultimately, the idea is to run two 8 weeks + PCT in a year with a nice break in between, get max gains and reduce sides.

    Drugs used: Prop stacked with NPP. Key objectives are bulking obviously, and also achieve some joints protection. I have suffered lately with tennis elbow and I think NPP is the right type of drug for this issue.

    In regards to the AI, I have used a combo of Arimidex first and Aromasin afterwards. Arimidex at the beginning as I will need E2 control for sure. Replace Arimidex with Aromasin two weeks prior the end of the cycle to avoid the E2 rebounce at the end of the cycle, moving into into the PCT phase to increase total Testosterone by ~60% after 10 days @ 25mg/day and free Testosterone by 100%.
    I am not too sure about the doses and the frequencies as I using the standard ones I have found, so any input in regards would be much appreciated.

    I have added Caber to maintain sexual functions which are likely to be affected by the NPP.

    Here below is the plan. What do you guys think?

    8 weeks.jpg
    Last edited by robinodd; 12-01-2016 at 04:39 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinodd View Post
    Hi guys,

    So, I have taken on board all your advices and I have decided to drop the 2 weekers for a slightly longer cycle.
    I have decided to keep it short but long enough to see some results if it makes sense. Ultimately, the idea is to run two 8 weeks + PCT in a year with a nice break in between, get max gains and reduce sides.

    Drugs used: Prop stacked with NPP. Key objectives are bulking obviously, and also achieve some joints protection. I have suffered lately with tennis elbow and I think NPP is the right type of drug for this issue.

    In regards to the AI, I have used a combo of Arimidex first and Aromasin afterwards. Arimidex at the beginning as I will need E2 control for sure. Replace Arimidex with Aromasin two weeks prior the end of the cycle to avoid the E2 rebounce at the end of the cycle, moving into into the PCT phase to increase total Testosterone by ~60% after 10 days @ 25mg/day and free Testosterone by 100%.
    I am not too sure about the doses and the frequencies as I using the standard ones I have found, so any input in regards would be much appreciated.

    I have added Caber to maintain sexual functions which are likely to be affected by the NPP.

    Here below is the plan. What do you guys think?

    8 weeks is a solid cycle length, much better than that 2 week nonsense.

    Use Aromasin 10mg/ED on cycle from day 1, don't switch with AIs. You wont get a rebound if Testosterone is low, which is what happens during PCT.

    Drop the SARM during PCT, it will prolong recovery. If anyone tells you otherwise they're full of shit. Like those morons over at EVO.

    You don't use AI's during PCT, well, not in the beginning. Endogenous Test is low, so Estrogen is also low. Using an AI when E is low can cause more side effects. Drop it.

    PCT needs to be 5-6 weeks long.

    wk 1-6 Tamoxifen 20mg/ED (40mg/ED first 7 days)
    wk 1-6 Clomid 25mg/ED (100mg/ED week 1)
    wk 3-7 Aromasin 10mg/ED
    *Humanofort
    *Ashwagandha Root Extract 2g/ED
    *Tribulus 1g/ED Sopharma

  11. #11
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    Hi admin,

    Thanks for that. Unfortunately, I cannot get hold of the NPP. So I am back to the drawing board for the third time.

    Can you guys please help me with this?

    I am looking to put together a 8 weeks short ester bulking cycle. I would like to use steroids that will allow me to keep gains and with low sides. These are the ones I am researching into at the moment: Test P, Materone P, dbol, Var and Winstrol
    Tren A is also something I have looked at, but to be honest, I am fine to pin EOD but not ED as it is required when using Tren A.

    I am planning to start 8 weeks at the beginning of January, followed by a 4 weeks PCT and an 8 weeks break. After that I would like to start another 8 weeker which will be the second and last of the year. I am not looking to cruise in between the two cycles.

    Do you have any advise for a plan that ticks these boxes?

    Thanks

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinodd View Post
    Hi admin,

    Thanks for that. Unfortunately, I cannot get hold of the NPP. So I am back to the drawing board for the third time.

    Can you guys please help me with this?

    I am looking to put together a 8 weeks short ester bulking cycle. I would like to use steroids that will allow me to keep gains and with low sides. These are the ones I am researching into at the moment: Test P, Materone P, dbol, Var and Winstrol
    Tren A is also something I have looked at, but to be honest, I am fine to pin EOD but not ED as it is required when using Tren A.

    I am planning to start 8 weeks at the beginning of January, followed by a 4 weeks PCT and an 8 weeks break. After that I would like to start another 8 weeker which will be the second and last of the year. I am not looking to cruise in between the two cycles.

    Do you have any advise for a plan that ticks these boxes?

    Thanks
    You can obtain NPP from either of our sponsors, ARL and/or Pharmacom Labs. Click the banners on the main forum under Approved Sources.

    I'd go with 6-8 weeks of Test Prop 100-150mg/EOD and NPP 100-150mg/EOD, 10mg/ED Aromasin, HCG 250ius 2x week. Add dbol at 30mg/ED for more bulking.

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