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  • #46
    ^^^ Very, very informative. Thanks Dan! You've settled some of my lingering questions and thoughts.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Dan C View Post
      Yes, BC is Estrogen, it messes with the negative feedback loop when administered to females, resulting in disrupted ovulation. If she's going off BC, it would remove that effect obviously. But she'll be on a cycle of AAS, so that will also serve to disable fertility as I previously mentioned. You being on TRT should reduce your sperm count (but it takes 8 weeks or so at least for levels to get significantly low). BUT you also need to understand that at a certain dose (around 100 - 300mg/week), Testosterone will exhibit a contraceptive effect in men. At HIGH doses of exogenous Testosterone, it will actually INCREASE fertility! So watch it if you're on a blast/cycle! There is a lot of literature online about this if you just google it, you'll see. In any case, I don't think you should have issues with getting your wife pregnant with all factors considered, BUT don't take things for granted because i'm sure you've also heard of people who ended up getting their wives/girlfriends pregnant while on-cycle. With the both of you being on AAS, I think the chances should be low. But there is always still a small chance. Best thing to do is for your wife to observe her ovulation while on AAS and be aware of disruptions/changes in the patterns just like regular BC would.
      Depending on the levels of estrogen in the pill the lower level of estrogen in the pill can prevent the pituitary gland from releasing LH ( luteinizing hormone) with no LH present, the egg does not mature and ovulation does not occur. High levels of estrogen cause the pituitary gland to release LH, LH causes ovulation.

      In men, LH stimulates the production of testosterone, which plays a role in sperm production.LH testing is commonly used to help evaluate a women's egg supply and a mans sperm count.

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      • #48
        Ok, so I am thinking over NPP for womens use. We all know alot of people would claim this to be too harsh for women, but it has a lower androgenic value than primo! I think NPP because of the short ester would be the best choice. So here are my questions:

        1. When a woman uses a 19-nor, do they need to use caber, bromo, or prami?
        2. When using NPP for the first time, would a dosing schedule like this be optimal, 25mgs monday/25mgs thursday?

        I need to give you something to do
        P.S.- Based on some research, some people recommend 25mgs weekly. I do not think this is accurate. I think these suggestions were made due to the lack of knowledge in womens use. I would almost say 25mgs would do next to nothing when compared to anavars A:A ratio. Of course, you are the expert, not me.

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        • #49
          Dan, what are your thoughts and knowledge in regards to HGH and "gut growth"? Thanks!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by warmouth View Post
            Ok, so I am thinking over NPP for womens use. We all know alot of people would claim this to be too harsh for women, but it has a lower androgenic value than primo! I think NPP because of the short ester would be the best choice. So here are my questions:

            1. When a woman uses a 19-nor, do they need to use caber, bromo, or prami?
            2. When using NPP for the first time, would a dosing schedule like this be optimal, 25mgs monday/25mgs thursday?

            I need to give you something to do
            P.S.- Based on some research, some people recommend 25mgs weekly. I do not think this is accurate. I think these suggestions were made due to the lack of knowledge in womens use. I would almost say 25mgs would do next to nothing when compared to anavars A:A ratio. Of course, you are the expert, not me.
            1. If prolactin becomes an issue, then yes they will have to use something to antagonize it. Prolactin increases, although certainly a negative for men, is not something exactly good for women either (especially when they don't need it), but it isn't as detrimental to them as it is to us. It will make them lactate. Anyhow, if it does become an issue then they will have to decrease it with Cabergoline, Bromocriptine, Pramipexole, or vitamin B6, etc.

            2. For females, a good dosing schedule would be 50 - 100mg/week split into Monday and Thursday injections as you suggested. Women should obviously start at the lowest end of that range and gauge results/effects from there as required.

            25 - 50mg per week was actually the original prescription guidelines for women for NPP. Considering that's the case, this is why I mentioned 50 - 100mg weekly for performance enhancing purposes. Virilization isn't normally an issue with any Nandrolone compound due to the very low androgenic strength rating, but it is still an issue that should be monitored.

            Originally posted by NoBull View Post
            Dan, what are your thoughts and knowledge in regards to HGH and "gut growth"? Thanks!
            I haven't done much reading or research into the "GH gut" issue, but it primarily results from the IGF-1 release that HGH causes, which then travels to the receptors in the body that are located on muscle as well as organs and the intestines. Over long-term chronic high-dose use, it can and does cause intestinal and organ growth to the point where the stomach will protrude. But this takes years and years of consistent chronic HGH and IGF-1 use. A lot of people seem to think this just suddenly occurs after a 6 month run of HGH at 5iu per day. No, it occurs after a 5, 6, 7+ year run of HGH at 5iu per day (or like the pros do, 15 - 20iu per day).
            Chief writer for Steroidal.com
            Formerly known as Atomini
            Steroidal.com: the world's largest informational resource on anabolic steroids and all things performance enhancing drug related!
            "Strongest minds are often those whom the noisy world hears least" - William Wordsworth

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            • #51
              Thanks Dan! You're the best!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by warmouth View Post
                Thanks Dan! You're the best!
                Second this, thanks again for the knowledge! Giving me a brain pump.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cotagirl
                  Electra Maddox told me of this a while ago. I was hoping she would see this at some point as well. I havent seen her too much. She also mentioned that ceasing birth control is very beneficial for steroids to have a greater effect. I am curious if stopping BC during time on would effect me in a way like BC (such as making it difficult to concieve, the point of BC). Right now we arent looking to have children yet, so this is why I havent stopped. Warmouth says it would be very difficult for us to concieve anyways with him being on testosterone, but I like to be cautious. Not that I dont want children. I just dont want them right now. So would me stopping BC and taking anavar still make it hard to concieve you think?
                  FYI / UPDATE........

                  Electra recently stopped birth control because she was having a problem with estrogen deposits around her lower tummy & the back / inside of her arms, yes the anabolic cycle has definately disrupted her menstrual cycle / ovulation...........BUT...........(notice the BIG BUT..........I like big buts.........) while we are both pretty secure in the theory that she can't get pregnant right now.........we still take a little extra precaution............I don't "finish" inside her..........with my sperm count lowered & her ovulation disrupted...........we're confident in this technique.................

                  "I'm just sayin......."
                  ."The only easy day was yesterday"

                  "I am immortal......I have within me blood of kings.........I am unrivaled.....no man can be my equal"

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by BEAR View Post
                    FYI / UPDATE........

                    Electra recently stopped birth control because she was having a problem with estrogen deposits around her lower tummy & the back / inside of her arms, yes the anabolic cycle has definately disrupted her menstrual cycle / ovulation...........BUT...........(notice the BIG BUT..........I like big buts.........) while we are both pretty secure in the theory that she can't get pregnant right now.........we still take a little extra precaution............I don't "finish" inside her..........with my sperm count lowered & her ovulation disrupted...........we're confident in this technique.................

                    "I'm just sayin......."
                    Awesome update, thanks for sharing. I have had women tell me that when they go on birth control, they find that they do gain weight as well as hold extra fat on the prototypical female areas (breasts, thighs, ass, etc.). I think that's pretty typical of what Estrogen does cause in the body in terms of fat distribution. The bulk of the weight gain is likely mostly water though. When they go off, I am told a lot of that recedes/disappears. There's no doubt that an anabolic steroid cycle in a female would disrupt ovulation, but how effective that is in comparison to birth control, I don't know. I think it's time for me to search some studies on this and see if such a thing has been studied at any point.
                    Chief writer for Steroidal.com
                    Formerly known as Atomini
                    Steroidal.com: the world's largest informational resource on anabolic steroids and all things performance enhancing drug related!
                    "Strongest minds are often those whom the noisy world hears least" - William Wordsworth

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Dan, what are your thoughts on HGH and insulin sensitivity? I've seen a study stating after 6 months of HGH use, insulin sensitivity/resistance were not affected. Seems as though from nearly everywhere else, it's said it increases the resistance. Trying to get this cleared up.

                      Unable to link the study right now as I'm posting from my phone.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bull View Post
                        Dan, what are your thoughts on HGH and insulin sensitivity? I've seen a study stating after 6 months of HGH use, insulin sensitivity/resistance were not affected. Seems as though from nearly everywhere else, it's said it increases the resistance. Trying to get this cleared up.

                        Unable to link the study right now as I'm posting from my phone.
                        What was the study you found? Can you link or reference it?

                        I haven't studied too much on the diabetogenic effects of HGH. It seems to be something that has been parroted over the decades, yes, and even the medical establishment lists warnings concerning HGH use and how it will affect insulin sensitivity. I would imagine it's much like anything... within a certain dose range, it will probably have little to no effect, while going high enough on the dose would impact insulin sensitivity negatively. These are the things to pay attention to in the studies you come across. What was the dose used? For how long? Under what conditions? The fact that HGH plays a role in metabolism in the body dictates to me that it's very possible that there would be a negative impact on insulin sensitivity, but perhaps only at very high (i.e. pro/competitive bodybuilder doses) and for extended durations of use. I'm going to have to do some more research on this myself.
                        Chief writer for Steroidal.com
                        Formerly known as Atomini
                        Steroidal.com: the world's largest informational resource on anabolic steroids and all things performance enhancing drug related!
                        "Strongest minds are often those whom the noisy world hears least" - William Wordsworth

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Dan C View Post
                          What was the study you found? Can you link or reference it?

                          I haven't studied too much on the diabetogenic effects of HGH. It seems to be something that has been parroted over the decades, yes, and even the medical establishment lists warnings concerning HGH use and how it will affect insulin sensitivity. I would imagine it's much like anything... within a certain dose range, it will probably have little to no effect, while going high enough on the dose would impact insulin sensitivity negatively. These are the things to pay attention to in the studies you come across. What was the dose used? For how long? Under what conditions? The fact that HGH plays a role in metabolism in the body dictates to me that it's very possible that there would be a negative impact on insulin sensitivity, but perhaps only at very high (i.e. pro/competitive bodybuilder doses) and for extended durations of use. I'm going to have to do some more research on this myself.
                          I found the study again and it turns it it was conducted on Growth Hormone Deficient patients and didn't mention anything about insulin sensitivity, only amount of insulin. That's what I get for researching at the end of a night shift. I'd be glad to hear of anything you come across in your research on this though.

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                          • #58
                            What level of hepatoxicity do you thimk there is if using 35mgs of dbol for 4 weeks while taking highish amiunts of acetaminophen daily? I understand this would increase the risk, but if using 1200mgs of NAC daily, could it be controlled? Right now I use 600mgs of NAC and my liver enzymes are amazing. And you know what they used to be. I am taking accutane that finally ends in a week and yet my liver enzymes and function is amazing. BTW, I'm not planning using dbol anytime soon, just curious more than anything. I may never use it to be honest. I am planning on running a moderate dose of anavar as a bridge (like 60-75mgs), but anavar really only effects my lipids, and effects them bad. Ill be looking into something to help that, but am more curious about the dbol. One thing at a time
                            What say you?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              While I think 600mg of NAC daily should be adequate, i'd bump it up to 1200, maybe even 1800. I've used as much as 2400mg of NAC before with no issues. I am assuming you saw the recent update on my liver thread/article? The study I referenced where it was discovered extreme doses of NAC can exhibit lung and heart issues used doses far in excess of what we would use. I was actually going to suggest in my update that a NAC dose for liver repair after extensive liver damage could be up in the 3,000 - 4,000 mg range, but I wanted to play it safe as the last thing I need is a bunch of kids think they can use extreme doses of NAC and end up with heart and lung issues.

                              Anyhow, I think in your case you should be good to go. If you want added security, you can use TUDCA with it, and you'd have the AAS cholestasis specific to the oral AAS covered, and the NAC would have the acetaminophen toxicity covered (as well as overlapping the anti-cholestasis effect of the TUDCA). But as long as you're getting bloodwork (and you are), you will know where your liver enzymes are at, and as long as they're good and in perfect range there's no need to spend money on an extra protectant if everything is already okay.

                              As far as Anavar and it's effects on lipids go, I would suggest supplementing with 4g of fish oil per day while on cycle. In fact, I suggest doing that on ANY and ALL cycles. I find the best combination is something like 3g of fish oil and 1g of flax seed oil, and you have everything taken care of. NAC should improve liver values while using oral C17AA anabolic steroids, and TUDCA should help it even better. Anavar doesn't seem to affect most people's lipids too harshly, but your body seems to have an exceptional individualized reaction. In fact, if I remember correctly from some bloodwork you showed me a while ago, you've always had issues with bad lipids regardless of on-cycle or off-cycle, so I am not surprised even Anavar would have such a negative effect.
                              Chief writer for Steroidal.com
                              Formerly known as Atomini
                              Steroidal.com: the world's largest informational resource on anabolic steroids and all things performance enhancing drug related!
                              "Strongest minds are often those whom the noisy world hears least" - William Wordsworth

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Thank you for the detailed answer. Definitley helped and made me a bit more secure. Dbols hepatoxicity has always freaked me out a bit, but I will run NAC at 1200mgs and tudca at 500 I guess to be on the safe side if I do run it. And I do take 4grams of fish oil daily now, and have been for about 6 months. I may up it an extra gram with the flaxseed. Great stuff. You need to write a book!

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