How to Avoid Shutdown... Not going to happen

[warmouth]

I would like to get some assistance in helping some possible lurkers out and clearing up some misconceptions. I would really apprieciate some feedback and help on the subject.

I see and hear all of the time, amd used to get PMs like crazy from people who keep AAS doses too low because they have a sense of security that they won't shut down natural testosterone production. Being I'm just one person, I'd like to have some of you guys chime in.

I've seen guys use 50mgs of test prop 2x weekly to keep from shutting themselves down. I've seen people use 100mgs of test cyp 2x weekly in order to just "add" to their natural levels. Ive seen winstrol amd avavar only cycles because guys domt want to mess with their testosterone. It doesn't work this way, and all that is being done is replacing your test (called testosterone replacement therapy when prescribed by doctors for low t). This can lead to more damage than just running a typical cycle. It can lead to constant fluctuations to hormones, a start, stop, start, stop to your testes, which can lead to permanent damage. Too much start and start up can cause a tremendous amount of stress to your HPTA system and lead to a lifelong course of weekly testosterone injections. This is just something to think about when you think you are cycling "safe" because it is opposite of what you might think. Always use test consistantly too keep levels stable. This will lead to less sides, and bebeuch easier to recover from. ALWAYS use a proper post cycle therapy (PCT) once your cycle is complete.

I hope some of you guys can please add to this to help avoid some confusion. I didn't want to copy and paste any of Dan's work without his approval. Thanks guys!

[kubes]

Any androgens added to the system will cause suppression of the natural testosterone production. There is no such thing as a low dose test cycle not causing suppression as whatever amount of test you are using causes suppression of that amount that your body produces. Some seem to think that you can top your system off and it just doesn't work that way. Look at it this way if your body is producing 7 mg of test per day hypothetically of course and you introduce 5 mg of exogenous e test Ed. Then you body will notice it and only produce 2 mg of test to keep things the way they were. So this is why that so long as you are shut down by adding more exogenous e test it makes no sense to not use more than you are producing.

[Jizzle]

I would also like to see some input on this subject. I'm 24 years in age (190 lbs, 5'10, 12% BF) and was wondering about running a cycle of Cyp myself (along with winny before workouts) , but I have a fear of screwing up/shutting down my natural levels. I just wanted to run a short cycle to add/boost definition of what muscle I already have gained over about 4.5 - 5 years of lifting. Any information from experienced individuals would be greatly appreciated!!

[Jizzle]

Any androgens added to the system will cause suppression of the natural testosterone production. There is no such thing as a low dose test cycle not causing suppression as whatever amount of test you are using causes suppression of that amount that your body produces. Some seem to think that you can top your system off and it just doesn't work that way. Look at it this way if your body is producing 7 mg of test per day hypothetically of course and you introduce 5 mg of exogenous e test Ed. Then you body will notice it and only produce 2 mg of test to keep things the way they were. So this is why that so long as you are shut down by adding more exogenous e test it makes no sense to not use more than you are producing.

That makes perfect sense, never thought of it that way !

[kubes]

I would also like to see some input on this subject. I'm 24 years in age (190 lbs, 5'10, 12% BF) and was wondering about running a cycle of Cyp myself (along with winny before workouts) , but I have a fear of screwing up/shutting down my natural levels. I just wanted to run a short cycle to add/boost definition of what muscle I already have gained over about 4.5 - 5 years of lifting. Any information from experienced individuals would be greatly appreciated!!

Any time you run a cycle you are shutting yourself down while adding exogenous testosterone and or androgens to your system. This is we're hcg comes in to maintain testicular function during the cycle. This way during pct your main focus is to get your body producing lh as fast as possible

[warmouth]

I'm a fan of using winstrol as a preworkout myself while exogenous test is already being used. I'm on trt so I always have test in range. But for short cycles, I would personally suggest moderate to moderatly high doses of a short ester for 6 weeks. Doing it this way keeps you shut down for a lesser duration and should allow for a quicker recovery. The longer you are shut down, the harder or longer it takes to kickstart versus a short cycle. PCT on short estered cycle can be started after 3 days of the last pin. With a long ester it takes 14 days before you can start. This is the main reason I prefer recommending short esters for people not on try. The biggest issue I see with people using short esters is that they pin too infrequent. Short esters should be used every other day minimum.

[kubes]

Wouldn't you benefit more from the compound by keeping levels steady? I am not a big fan of winstrol it play terror on my joints!!

[Jizzle]

So if I ran 50 MG of

Test Cyp

for 2 weeks, and then bumped up to 100 MG on week 3 on out through the cycle would I start to see gains? OR would you recommend higher doses of the CYP on the last 4 weeks?

[For example]: Running a 6 week cycle of ; 2 weeks > 50 mg, then 4 weeks > 100 mg, along with some winstrol thrown in before workouts or EOD the last 4 weeks.

( Keep in mind I have already taken 50 mg of the CYP along with 50 mg of winny just this past Friday ) Just some general advice would be appreciated , thanks !

[Jizzle]

Wouldn't you benefit more from the compound by keeping levels steady? I am not a big fan of winstrol it play terror on my joints!!

ELBOWS are what start to dry up on me, especially with curls! :\

[warmouth]

Wouldn't you benefit more from the compound by keeping levels steady? I am not a big fan of winstrol it play terror on my joints!!

Absolutely! I take it preworkout for 2on, 2off. I don't use it as a pre workout. Should have been clear. But my liver values are horrid on winstrol, that's why I pulse it.

[warmouth]

So if I ran 50 MG of for 2 weeks, and then bumped up to 100 MG on week 3 on out through the cycle would I start to see gains? OR would you recommend higher doses of the CYP on the last 4 weeks?

[For example]: Running a 6 week cycle of ; 2 weeks > 50 mg, then 4 weeks > 100 mg, along with some winstrol thrown in before workouts or EOD the last 4 weeks.

( Keep in mind I have already taken 50 mg of the CYP along with 50 mg of winny just this past Friday ) Just some general advice would be appreciated , thanks !

You won't see any results worth while when using the cypionate ester for 6 weeks. Typical results start around week 4, but for some it takes 6 or more. Bumping and stepping down is old school and we have research that proves instability is not good. My recommendation on cyp would be 500mgs weekly, pinned mondays amd thursdays, for 10-12 weeks followed by a 4 week pct. At 100 mgs weekly, you are literally shutting down natural production and replacing it only. Jims trt dose is 200mgs weekly. Mine is 125, but I would be better at 150-200 based on blood work.

[Jizzle]

So if I ran 50 MG of for 2 weeks, and then bumped up to 100 MG on week 3 on out through the cycle would I start to see gains? OR would you recommend higher doses of the CYP on the last 4 weeks?

[For example]: Running a 6 week cycle of ; 2 weeks > 50 mg, then 4 weeks > 100 mg, along with some winstrol thrown in before workouts or EOD the last 4 weeks.

( Keep in mind I have already taken 50 mg of the CYP along with 50 mg of winny just this past Friday ) Just some general advice would be appreciated , thanks !

Sorry, 500 MG* .. Then bumping up to 1000 MG of CYP.

[Admin]

Shutdown from exogenous Testosterone occurs around 2-3 weeks after use. This will be accelerated with increasing doses.

[Jizzle]

Okay, 10 - 12 weeks its going to be then ! Maybe I might bump it up a notch to 1000 mg around week 6 or so, only if I dont really see gains. I guess I'm thinking of more of a Prop style cycle with the 6 weeks theory. I keep forgetting CYP is kind of slow-acting, and I will definitely need a good PCT compound too. Thanks for the advice !

[warmouth]

If the cyp is dosed at 250mgs, you could do 1.5mls on mondays and thursdays. I do feel like that with your track record that You know youre body enough to handle 750mgs pretty well. Made sure to be using armidex or exemestane throughout. A combo of nolvadex and clomid is typical, but instead of clomid you can use torem/ralox I believe. I'd have to check dans sticky.