HCG dose on Steroids?

[Admin]

What does everyone use to maintain testicular size and function?

I know not everyone will use it.

[OdinsOtherSon]

500iu, divided into two 250iu doses administered (ideally) the day before pinning test. Of course 500 is an excellent starting point; however, as we are all individuals one should monitor for atrophy and/or pain and adjust dosage accordingly.

[Dan C]

I am investigating Triptorelin as a potential replacement for HCG in this role, since it has the added benefit of keeping the pituitary stimulated as well as the Leydig cells of the testes. This would keep two points of the axis from undergoing atrophy from prolonged dormancy due to the negative feedback loop. HCG use only really tackles the Leydig cells, but not the pituitary. Thought i'd mention that since we're on this topic already.

[Bull]

I've used 250iu e3d and it kept the boys up and running through a 4 month cycle. Estrogen was really high towards the end though.

Triptorelin seems promising although the chemical castration part is a little scary. Anything about it for long term at low doses, Dan?

[blergs]

I have recommended it at END of cycle to help with PCT, but never really recommend it for long term use personally. but how i do rec it is 500iu 2X a week for the last 4-5 weeks of cycle leading up to BUT NOT into PCT.

[Dan C]

I've used 250iu e3d and it kept the boys up and running through a 4 month cycle. Estrogen was really high towards the end though.

Triptorelin seems promising although the chemical castration part is a little scary. Anything about it for long term at low doses, Dan?

I'm looking into that. The initial reading and research that I've done has lead me to logs and discussions where other athletes/bodybuilders have attempted (or are thinking of) something like very small 10 - 20mcg shots of Triptorelin every few weeks while on cycle. For PCT, I am solid on the concept of using it at 10mcg per day for the first 5 days of PCT to kickstart the HPTA, and carry the remaining weeks of PCT through with low dose Nolvadex. I honestly think Triptorelin can be extremely beneficial and harmless in the correct dose range. The pituitary seems to get fried and burned out resulting in chemical castration at doses greater than 100mcg. No clinical studies have investigated its use at very low doses for pituitary/HPTA stimulation. So far all clinical research has been on the castration capability of it. Remember that HCG can chemically castrate you as well if you use too much of it.

[warmouth]

IF I use it, and that's a big IF, ill use 500mcgs 1x a week. I find dosing is easiest this way, as I can pull it up with my trt dose and administer it together. I like to recommend hcg to everyone, I just don't use it like I should for a few reasons unrelated to anyone else.

[Bull]

I'm looking into that. The initial reading and research that I've done has lead me to logs and discussions where other athletes/bodybuilders have attempted (or are thinking of) something like very small 10 - 20mcg shots of Triptorelin every few weeks while on cycle. For PCT, I am solid on the concept of using it at 10mcg per day for the first 5 days of PCT to kickstart the HPTA, and carry the remaining weeks of PCT through with low dose Nolvadex. I honestly think Triptorelin can be extremely beneficial and harmless in the correct dose range. The pituitary seems to get fried and burned out resulting in chemical castration at doses greater than 100mcg. No clinical studies have investigated its use at very low doses for pituitary/HPTA stimulation. So far all clinical research has been on the castration capability of it. Remember that HCG can chemically castrate you as well if you use too much of it.

Hrmmm, very interesting. Maybe I'll give your idea of 10mcg for 5 days of Triptorelin before PCT a try for my next cycle. HCG gives me too much estrogen, and that's not something I want on stage.

As for the chemical castration from HCG, do you have any numbers for us there? I've seen guys use huge amounts at once.

[Admin]

Hrmmm, very interesting. Maybe I'll give your idea of 10mcg for 5 days of Triptorelin before PCT a try for my next cycle. HCG gives me too much estrogen, and that's not something I want on stage.

As for the chemical castration from HCG, do you have any numbers for us there? I've seen guys use huge amounts at once.

Do you use an AI on cycle? If so, which and what dose?

[Bull]

Do you use an AI on cycle? If so, which and what dose?

Depends on the cycle and situation. I've used 1mg adex daily, 25mg aromosin daily, and up to 5mg letrozole daily. Not all at once mind you. Although letro and either of the other two have been used together.

[OdinsOtherSon]

I am investigating Triptorelin as a potential replacement for HCG in this role, since it has the added benefit of keeping the pituitary stimulated as well as the Leydig cells of the testes. This would keep two points of the axis from undergoing atrophy from prolonged dormancy due to the negative feedback loop. HCG use only really tackles the Leydig cells, but not the pituitary. Thought i'd mention that since we're on this topic already.

Dan, as always I'd be very interested in your thoughts here. I for one am always on board for better products to aid in recovery.

[Dan C]

Hrmmm, very interesting. Maybe I'll give your idea of 10mcg for 5 days of Triptorelin before PCT a try for my next cycle. HCG gives me too much estrogen, and that's not something I want on stage.

As for the chemical castration from HCG, do you have any numbers for us there? I've seen guys use huge amounts at once.

It seems to be that the margin for error with HCG is very large compared to the margin for error with Triptorelin. But I do know that doses that are too high will desensitize the Leydig cells of the testes to gonadotropins and won't respond to HCG or you own body's endogenous gonadotropins (LH) as effectively or at all. Also, HCG administration for too long will end in the same result. Actually, I believe that it is long duration that might be the worse one. There have been several studies done on this. One study administered to six patients 1,500iu of HCG once every 6 days for a full year that resulted in Leydig cell desensitization(1). Another study actually investigated the use of HCG for suppressing testicular function (in the exact same way as Triptorelin is currently used)(2).

References:
1. Testicular responsiveness following chronic administration of hCG (1500 IU every six days) in untreated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. Balducci R, Toscano V, Casilli D, Maroder M, Sciarra F, Boscherini B. Horm Metab Res. 1987 May;19(5):216-21.
2. The different mechanisms for suppression of pituitary and testicular function. Sandow J, Engelbart K, von Rechenberg W. Med Biol. 1986;63(5-6):192-200.

[Admin]

Depends on the cycle and situation. I've used 1mg adex daily, 25mg aromosin daily, and up to 5mg letrozole daily. Not all at once mind you. Although letro and either of the other two have been used together.

They;re some large doses, 5mg of Letro should reduce your estrogen considerably and cause some nasty side effects. I'd be surprised if you had real Letro.

[Bull]

They;re some large doses, 5mg of Letro should reduce your estrogen considerably and cause some nasty side effects. I'd be surprised if you had real Letro.

It's legit and worked well. Knees hurt not long after taking it at that dose, but the gyno hadn't gone away completely 'til I started my pct. I got to it too late after it started, as I foolishly wasn't prepared.