Have the deaths this year meant you changed your approach?

[Admin]

Have the deaths of athletes and bodybuilders this year meant you changed your approach to cycling, steroid and HGH doses?

[OnTheSauce]

Not at all. More routine bloodwork and increasing cardio will be in the future though. How many people died from heart disease from fast food? Alcoholics from organ failure? Really any AAS related death is a small percentage.

[warmouth]

I'd be lying to say that it hasn't crossed my mind because lets face it, these guys are way under the average age mark for heart attacks and similar. However, anything and everything can and will harm the body. I'm 20 years, I'm sure simple everyday things will show evidence and direct causes of health problems. Any hobby has risks (unless it is something like scrapbooking). If used moderately, BW and other means of care should lessen the effects of a cycle or 2 a year. For us blast and cruisers, I'd say we need to be EXTRA cautious and have multiple blood work and check ups a year. Always use the brain we were born with. And if that brain is 1 brick shy of a load, use the brains of others who give sound advice. Proper supplementation and checkups are key. We only get one body, so take care of it (originally my saying and people stole it).

[Dan C]

The type of use and the dosages used by a lot of these pro bodybuilders are in a totally different class and category compared to the average gym rat who uses 500mg/week of Testosterone to help themselves grow faster and larger. I have a friend who has known many pro level bodybuilders at a personal level, and the things he has told me has blown my mind. Stories of 7,000mg/week of Sustanon ALONE (and that's just Sustanone, we haven't even gotten to the other compounds the unnamed bodybuilder I will not say was using). Stories of 5ml of Trenbolone per day, etc.

These guys are the very definition of extreme. It is no wonder they are dying of heart related and organ-related conditions at fairly young ages. But at the same time it's easy for an enthusiastic recreational AAS user to fall into the slippery slope of ever increasing dosages, cycle lengths, and before you know it, you too could be using 1,000mg+ per week of compounds when you really don't need to.

[warmouth]

The type of use and the dosages used by a lot of these pro bodybuilders are in a totally different class and category compared to the average gym rat who uses 500mg/week of Testosterone to help themselves grow faster and larger. I have a friend who has known many pro level bodybuilders at a personal level, and the things he has told me has blown my mind. Stories of 7,000mg/week of Sustanon ALONE (and that's just Sustanone, we haven't even gotten to the other compounds the unnamed bodybuilder I will not say was using). Stories of 5ml of Trenbolone per day, etc.

These guys are the very definition of extreme. It is no wonder they are dying of heart related and organ-related conditions at fairly young ages. But at the same time it's easy for an enthusiastic recreational AAS user to fall into the slippery slope of ever increasing dosages, cycle lengths, and before you know it, you too could be using 1,000mg+ per week of compounds when you really don't need to.

Touche.

[Dan C]

I would also like to add that this friend of mine told me that a pro he knew personally said to him "Tony, if they discovered that eating shit would make me bigger, I would eat shit. I would eat YOUR shit. Yes, I am sick and I know it, but I'd do it if it made me bigger". And I think that just sums up the extreme attitudes of these guys to do anything, A N Y T H I N G to be the biggest and the most ripped, etc. It is no wonder that we hear stories of these guys on 10,000g per week of total steroid, or injecting IV preparations of Trenbolone the day before a show, etc. (yes, I've been told that a few of these guys do that).

[jasona]

The type of use and the dosages used by a lot of these pro bodybuilders are in a totally different class and category compared to the average gym rat who uses 500mg/week of Testosterone to help themselves grow faster and larger. I have a friend who has known many pro level bodybuilders at a personal level, and the things he has told me has blown my mind. Stories of 7,000mg/week of Sustanon ALONE (and that's just Sustanone, we haven't even gotten to the other compounds the unnamed bodybuilder I will not say was using). Stories of 5ml of Trenbolone per day, etc.

These guys are the very definition of extreme. It is no wonder they are dying of heart related and organ-related conditions at fairly young ages. But at the same time it's easy for an enthusiastic recreational AAS user to fall into the slippery slope of ever increasing dosages, cycle lengths, and before you know it, you too could be using 1,000mg+ per week of compounds when you really don't need to.

I would love to hear more of this type of stuff. So crazy.

I would also like to add that this friend of mine told me that a pro he knew personally said to him "Tony, if they discovered that eating shit would make me bigger, I would eat shit. I would eat YOUR shit. Yes, I am sick and I know it, but I'd do it if it made me bigger". And I think that just sums up the extreme attitudes of these guys to do anything, A N Y T H I N G to be the biggest and the most ripped, etc. It is no wonder that we hear stories of these guys on 10,000g per week of total steroid, or injecting IV preparations of Trenbolone the day before a show, etc. (yes, I've been told that a few of these guys do that).

This too.

The nature of competitiveness means that people are going to push it as far as they can. In a pursuit like bodybuilding, where the whole look hinges so much on the drugs, the progression can only proceed toward increasing dosages and adding new drugs to the mix. The delayed impact of these drugs' negative effects only exacerbates the issue, because the reward comes quickly but the risk typically doesn't come to term for several decades.

Bodybuilding could never exist otherwise though. Thorough drug testing would result in smaller, more average physiques. Who wants to watch comps/buy magazines/products endorsed by or featuring natty bodybuilders? I respect natty guys, but the problem with natty guys is it's too achievable. I mean, the natty "Men's Health" cover model look is too common, you see guys that good in every gym and on every beach.

This is what every guy who bemoans the passing of the 70's era of bodybuilding physiques simply fails to understand: physiques NEED to get freakier. Otherwise, the look becomes commonplace, and there is no difference between a high level IFBB competitor and the average guy on the beach. Frank Zane looked great, but there are literally a million guys on the beach that look close. Maybe not quite as lean and dry, but pretty close.

So the drugs have to stay, and as long as they don't kill people immediately, they will probably stick around.

Compared to Dan C's examples, I am using baby doses, so I am not really seeing a need to change anything.

[TJM]

We only get one life. This isn't a video game where we get to start over and try something else. IMO if youre not living life on your terms, you aren't really alive anyways. Nothing I've seen confirms any of these guys definitely died as a direct result of steroid use or any of the myriad 'not approved nor tested on humans' compounds they use at that level. The truth is they don't talk about it (wisely) to anybody except perhaps very close friends or family. Certainly not to the media, the very people reporting said deaths. They see a huge musclebound freak, assume they did steroids without having a clue what that means, and conclude that since this person died at less than average age for their demographic, steroids therefore are responsible.

Is the assumption correct? Nobody knows. I do know I will not live my life in fear of death. Its going to happen. That is a fact. None of us knows when or how, but it definitely will. Its going to happen on my terms, not some 'if' theory. I don't use anywhere near the dosages of a person who's newsworthy. I know what's safe and what's not, and I monitor my blood and organ function far better than most. That's all I can do. I'm not going to stop because it 'might' cause a problem later. Odds are against it. I honestly worry more about the fat content of my food because being fat and sedentary is far more likely to hasten death than careful, moderate steroid use in an active person who knows what they're doing.

Short answer: nope. Lol. /rant

[TJM]

All good, thoughtful posts in here. Interesting question.

[warmouth]

Maybe this shouldn't be said open, but it is right along with what Dan has said. I personally know a guy in his late 40s who has competed for years. He has tried and tried to get his pro card. It is his goal. He has and does use the most
insane doses I've ever heard of in preparation for the "in" season. He said it is common place for him, as well as others, to use 1000mgs daily of test e or c, along with 400mgs of "deca" weekly and 100+ mgs of dbol or anadrol. He claims that once its time to cut for the shows, he uses 200mgs of tren 200mgs of masteron, 100mgs of winstrol, and no testosterone at all. He commonly is doing his reps at the gym and has to stop for long durations between sets and is totally out of breath. I've seen him sweating so bad that employees have asked him to shower during the workouts. And get this... the guys heart is twice the normal size a heart is supposed to be. He has told me a lot, and he is concerned (so he says) but will not stop because he is so focused on winning and getting that pro card. Thats another extreme case of abuse and should never be done if a person actually cares about thier health. To me, it is a form of suicide because the body cannot sustain in those conditions. I'm guilty of overdoing it to an extent, and that's why I've decided to keep all injectables to a combined dose of no more that a gram a week on blast. There is just too much risk involved. On the flip side, I do think that AAS can actuallymake people lead a healthier and longer life if used properly and not abused. Just my .02 cents again.

[Admin]

If you cant compete at a high national level on a sensible amount of anabolic steroids, then the sport probably isnt for you. I've heard of some pro dosages and some aren't as wild as whats in this thread, not even close, but there is always someone willing to push the boundaries and not accept their genetics.

[jasona]

We only get one life. I honestly worry more about the fat content of my food because being fat and sedentary is far more likely to hasten death than careful, moderate steroid use in an active person who knows what they're doing.

I think the main problem is that moderate steroid use has limited benefits. Even with incredible response to AAS, most folks have to do cycles that are at least a little bit more than moderate. Otherwise, you look pretty much just a slightly above gym rat. 500 mg Test e per week isn't gonna do a ton. So people start there, but most will push it with other steroids and higher dosages.

Maybe this shouldn't be said open, but it is right along with what Dan has said. I personally know a guy in his late 40s who has competed for years. He has tried and tried to get his pro card. It is his goal. He has and does use the most
insane doses I've ever heard of in preparation for the "in" season. He said it is common place for him, as well as others, to use 1000mgs daily of test e or c, along with 400mgs of "deca" weekly and 100+ mgs of dbol or anadrol. He claims that once its time to cut for the shows, he uses 200mgs of tren 200mgs of masteron, 100mgs of winstrol, and no testosterone at all. He commonly is doing his reps at the gym and has to stop for long durations between sets and is totally out of breath. I've seen him sweating so bad that employees have asked him to shower during the workouts. And get this... the guys heart is twice the normal size a heart is supposed to be. He has told me a lot, and he is concerned (so he says) but will not stop because he is so focused on winning and getting that pro card. Thats another extreme case of abuse and should never be done if a person actually cares about thier health. To me, it is a form of suicide because the body cannot sustain in those conditions. I'm guilty of overdoing it to an extent, and that's why I've decided to keep all injectables to a combined dose of no more that a gram a week on blast. There is just too much risk involved. On the flip side, I do think that AAS can actuallymake people lead a healthier and longer life if used properly and not abused. Just my .02 cents again.

Sucks to hear about this guy, nearly 50 is a bit late to be going for the pro card. His cycles sound crazy too. He should take the heart enlargement thing seriously; while that is reversible, he will need to cease AAS for that to decrease.

A gram a week will do you pretty well, but why are you using gear?

If you cant compete at a high national level on a sensible amount of anabolic steroids, then the sport probably isnt for you. I've heard of some pro dosages and some aren't as wild as whats in this thread, not even close, but there is always someone willing to push the boundaries and not accept their genetics.

What's sensible? All the guys at the high national level are running blasts that would make our heads spin. Even guys with great genes don't stop there. Why not look 100%?

[Admin]

I think the main problem is that moderate steroid use has limited benefits. Even with incredible response to AAS, most folks have to do cycles that are at least a little bit more than moderate. Otherwise, you look pretty much just a slightly above gym rat. 500 mg Test e per week isn't gonna do a ton. So people start there, but most will push it with other steroids and higher dosages.





Sucks to hear about this guy, nearly 50 is a bit late to be going for the pro card. His cycles sound crazy too. He should take the heart enlargement thing seriously; while that is reversible, he will need to cease AAS for that to decrease.

A gram a week will do you pretty well, but why are you using gear?






What's sensible? All the guys at the high national level are running blasts that would make our heads spin. Even guys with great genes don't stop there. Why not look 100%?

Its probably easier to distinguish between "abuse" and "sensible" actually.

I've spoken to a fair few trainers over the years who have competed at a high level and trained pro's. Their dosages vary a great deal. One will be on 1-2g of steroids total per week and competing at a high level and another will be doing 5g per week.

Have you seen these videos of Branch and Jay at 18/19 years of age?

They wont have been training long and wont have been on high dosages of anabolic steroids and GH in these videos and already have a fantastic base.

[Admin]

Jay at 20 in 1993

Pretty obvious to me he's going to be a high level competitor when he looks like that at 20!

Look at the size of his legs change after 1 year.

[Admin]

Ronnie in 1990