wanting tren e advice

[hdh.bf]

So here's my stats. 146 lbs, 5'10, age 25, 2.5 years training. Bf is low, got abs and very cut but not measured. 1 cycle completed (250 test e) 10 weeks. Gained 15 lbs on cycle. Dropped about 5 after (water weight?)

First I started at 135 lbs. Initial max bench at 95 lbs (3-5 reps)

2 years later max bench 155. still weighing 135.

If you even count it as a cycle did anadrol 50 for 4 weeks because I was pretty against getting away from all Nat. After that 'cycle' gained 30 lbs on bench but mostly lost it after. Maybe 1 rep on certain days. Waited about a month and tried test e at 250 mg ew. Pressed gained to 185 (1-3) reps on cycle. Now a month after doing 3-4 sets at 185 lbs up to 5 reps per set. As I said weight is 145ish. Lose or gain 1-2 lbs a week. also running 20 mg var since cycle ended.

5 meal a day diet. Avg 270 g protein, 230 carb, 200 fat... 3400 calories. Been on diet 5 months. No noticeable change in weight unless on cycle. (Cheat/slack the weekends).

Goal is 170-180 lbs.

Friend got me into AAS. He does not PCT. No gyno or real issues.

During cycle got minor tenderness on nipples for about 2 weeks in middle... Kinda got depressed about 3 weeks after cycle but got dumped at the same time.. hard to tell if it was related or not. Either way... Running a pct from now on and staying off var. A-sin during cycle starting week 2 and Nova after for 5 weeks starting 2 weeks after last pin.


First of all I know I really messed up skipping pct, and bridging to next cycle on 20 mg var is a bad decision... First time and didn't start researching AAS until mid cycle. Plan on doing it right after this next cycle. I don't want bitch tits.

Asking for advice for tren e, test e, var cycle. How low can I keep tren dose for a 10-12 week cycle and want to keep test e at 250-375 mg range. Var at 20 mg during cycle. Looking to gain 20-30 lbs on cycle and keep most of it. also how much a-sin and when to start the AI. Also getting caber just in case.

Planning
week 1: 20mg var ed, 125 mg test e
week 2: 20mg var ed, 250 mg test e, 50 mg tren e (testing for sides, never ran it before slow build up to make sure I can handle it)
Week 3: 20mg var ed, 250-375mg test e, 100 mg tren if I can cope sides (if I get them)
Week 4: 20 mg var ed, 375 mg test e, 150 mg tren
week 5: 20 mg var ed, 375 mg test e, 200 mg teen
Week 6-10 repeat
Week 11: 20 mg var ed, 250mg test e.
Week 12: 20 mg var ed, 125 mg test e.

2 weeks later pct nova.for 5 weeks. 40 mg ed weeks 1-2, 20 mg ed weeks 3-5. (Not sure when to start a-sin or dose or if to run it with pct.

Hopefully you guys don't beat me up to bad. My friend thinks I'm an idiot to run a pct and I'm trying to seek advice from you guys with experience doing it right so I can do it right.

[warmouth]

Honestly man, reading over this kind of aggravates me and as much as I would like to help, I don't think you're being honest with us, or yourself. I'm sure you're "cut" and lean at your stats. If your buddy don't PCT, shame on him, and don't take any advice he tries to offer whatsoever. You can't expect us to believe you are eating 3400 calories every day and still weighing what you do. Maybe here and there you are eating that much, but if you were eating like that daily, with your stats, you'd be putting on extreme amounts of mass natural. I've been there. I used to say things like "3500 cals a day and no weight gain". But it was rare I ate like that. And when I did, or ate really clean for a week or 2, I'd get the big head and think that's the normal for me.
Truth is, adding mass can be hard, but not that hard. I can't advise cycle advice when I see more harm than not here. Maybe someone can help. I'd just advise to be careful and don't listen to your buddy. Good luck

[warmouth]

I got to thinking. Please don't take me as being a jerk. I am not and want you to seriously consider how these drugs can negatively effect you both now and later in life. Just because they don't "make you high" or whatever, doesn't make them any less dangerous. We see the good and the bad because we have been on these forums and in the real world advising people for years. You're a young guy with alot of potential. I'd just hate to see you risk your long term health for a few unnatural pounds now.

[hdh.bf]

I definitely see were your coming from about the calories thing. The only meal in my meal plan that substantially changes every week is dinner and it could decrease (or increase when I do pasta) but that # was based on that weeks diet. As I said only 1 meal changes but ya could be some variance. Also like I said in the post I don't diet the weekends but I can't imagine 2/7 days ruining everything. Also for what its worth I've been 135ish for about 13 years. I still have shorts from middle school I wear around the house... Well here is a more specific question. Does that dose of tren seem mild enough I could try it and likely gain the muscle I want?

[warmouth]

I wouldnt use tren to gain. And for you, I wouldnt worry about trying to maintain a super strict diet (as far as considering your macros. Still try to eat clean,unprocessed foods if possible). Also, for gaining, I would cut meals down to 3 a day,as the more you eat, the higher your metabolism goes. This wouldn't apply for everyone, but guys like me and you who are hard gainers it works better, typically. You can still throw in one or 2 protien shakes a day in between to increase calories, just don't use them as a meal replacement. And plan out your feeding schedule and meals ahead of time. I like to prep all my food for the day a day ahead and force it down if I have too. It gets old, but it has to be done.

[hdh.bf]

Thank you warmouth for your input and pm's. Your recommendation of running 750 mg of test e 12 weeks and skipping the tren is something I'm heavily considering. simply worried about running that much test but its probably safer than running any amount of tren. Any other recommendations from the community? I'd greatly appreciate any input. I'm not one of those guy's that did one cycle and think hes got it all figured out. That's why I'm here. To learn from responsible and safe individuals.

[Admin]

Thank you warmouth for your input and pm's. Your recommendation of running 750 mg of test e 12 weeks and skipping the tren is something I'm heavily considering. simply worried about running that much test but its probably safer than running any amount of tren. Any other recommendations from the community? I'd greatly appreciate any input. I'm not one of those guy's that did one cycle and think hes got it all figured out. That's why I'm here. To learn from responsible and safe individuals.

750mg/wk of Test is way too much. You're stats aren't great to be honest, you could gain more naturally and then cycle when you have hit 200lbs.

Try injecting 250mg Test every 4-5 days and concentrate on getting your diet in order and get your weight up through that, not using excessive amounts of steroids.

[Admin]

146lbs at 5"10...

Honestly, forget about steroids for the minute and gain more naturally. What do you think your cycle is going to look like if you carry on this path and weigh 210lbs? You'd be using grams of steroids per week.

You will also struggle to carry the weight and added muscle as your diet isn't good. You're doing nothing but yo-yoing weight and compromising your health in the process.

[hdh.bf]

Thank you admin for your input. And 750 mg seemed insane to me as well. My diet is roughly 3400 cal per week (as dinner changes every week there is some change in the #) for 5 months I've added 2 more meals a day and 1 casein protein shake at lunch and a post 2nd lunch Greek yogurt (5 days a week, weekends I'm doing homework for college and grocery shopping, cleaning house etc, hard to squeeze in the meals and shakes). Except for when I was on cycle of 250 mg I haven't gained a lb. My metabolism is insane and I'm pretty certain my food just gets crapped out. My bathroom time everyday has increased to 3 times a day instead of 1-2. I think my body struggles with food efficiency. I'm leaning towards 500mg test e only this cycle... As I'm currently making a huge mistake by bridging between my cycle using 20 mg anavar trying to keep my gains. I've been maintaining 10 of my 15 lbs gains. Everything is much more defined now so I'd have to guess it was largely water weight in that 5 lbs. I've been gaining strength off cycle this past month and it looks like my bench max will increase to 205 this or next week (my spotter is barely using 2 fingers to help) and my reps at 185 are growing. On the 31st next month is day 1 of new cycle.

This time I'm going to do it right or at least better. Running a-sin 12.5 mgs ed (half cap) starting day 1 until at least end of cycle. Maybe 1 week after. Take 1 additional week off of nothing. Then start pct using 40 mg nolva ed week 1-2 pct. Week 3-5 pct 20 mg nolva. Seems that is a pretty standard pct. And use of AI. A-sin should help jump start Nat test production and doesn't interfere with nolva from what I have read. Lmk how this sounds.

And I know you guys don't believe there are hard gainers like myself to this extent but that's what it is for me.

[Admin]

Thank you admin for your input. And 750 mg seemed insane to me as well. My diet is roughly 3400 cal per week (as dinner changes every week there is some change in the #) for 5 months I've added 2 more meals a day and 1 casein protein shake at lunch and a post 2nd lunch Greek yogurt (5 days a week, weekends I'm doing homework for college and grocery shopping, cleaning house etc, hard to squeeze in the meals and shakes). Except for when I was on cycle of 250 mg I haven't gained a lb. My metabolism is insane and I'm pretty certain my food just gets crapped out. My bathroom time everyday has increased to 3 times a day instead of 1-2. I think my body struggles with food efficiency. I'm leaning towards 500mg test e only this cycle... As I'm currently making a huge mistake by bridging between my cycle using 20 mg anavar trying to keep my gains. I've been maintaining 10 of my 15 lbs gains. Everything is much more defined now so I'd have to guess it was largely water weight in that 5 lbs. I've been gaining strength off cycle this past month and it looks like my bench max will increase to 205 this or next week (my spotter is barely using 2 fingers to help) and my reps at 185 are growing. On the 31st next month is day 1 of new cycle.

This time I'm going to do it right or at least better. Running a-sin 12.5 mgs ed (half cap) starting day 1 until at least end of cycle. Maybe 1 week after. Take 1 additional week off of nothing. Then start pct using 40 mg nolva ed week 1-2 pct. Week 3-5 pct 20 mg nolva. Seems that is a pretty standard pct. And use of AI. A-sin should help jump start Nat test production and doesn't interfere with nolva from what I have read. Lmk how this sounds.

And I know you guys don't believe there are hard gainers like myself to this extent but that's what it is for me.

Building muscle takes time and adding weight. I think a lot of the times people use the "hard gainer" card when they're impatient. It takes months and years to build muscle and remaining consistent.

Have you used any HCG?

500mg/wk Test is a fair amount IMO, thats why I said 250mg every 4-5 days.

You need to grow into your dosage. You will gain muscle and size on the same cycle as you did before by increasing calories.

[Admin]

You should be eating 5-6 solid meals and 1-2 shakes IMO.

I eat 1 egg meal (breakfast), 2 chicken meals, 1 beef, 1 fish, 2 shakes.

If you want to add mass, weight, size, drink a 40-50g whey protein shake after EVERY meal. Will put you at 400-500g protein per day in no time, which is a lot.

[hdh.bf]

I've never used hcg. From most of the info I read it seemed optional compared to a AI or Serm. Almost most of the info I read said to base protein at .9g-1.5g per lb of body weight. In which case my max protein would be 225 grams. I'm at 270 so I thought that was more than enough. Doesn't extreme amounts of protein cause kidney issues or is that just a rumor? Also I absolutely hate pinning. It takes me about 30 min to mentally ready myself to do it. Thus why I prefer an enanthate. But it probably still causes my levels to spike and your suggestion would likely stabilize it. I would assume that is not only better for health and better gains correct?

My typical diet is a protein bar for pre breakfast. 20 g protein and 200 cal.
Breakfast: burrito or loose. 3 eggs with 3 pieces of sausage or bacon or 2 slices if ham with 2 prices of toast (whole wheat or sourdough) oj or Apple juice to drink ( I don't factor in the carbs from my drinks in my 3400 cal)
First lunch is tuna on whole wheat with miracle whip light and 2 serving of peanuts (powerade to drink dont count these carbs either)
2nd lunch is either a 1/3 lb turkey burger on whole wheat bun and BBQ sauce with 2 table spoons casein protein (or I do 1/2 lb teriyaki chicken or I do 1/2 lb BBQ sauce chicken) (I don't factor in the carbs on the sauce)
Post 2nd lunch is a Greek yogurt
gym Time
5 table spoons of whey protein and water shake (I should try to switch to milk but it used to give me stomach cramps years ago... Haven't tried recently cause I hate pain lol)

Dinner is really variable. 1/3 lb steak in beef strouganough with egg noodles. 1/3 lb Chicken in fetichinni alfredo. 3/4 lb tilapia or cod (parmesan or potatoe crushted. 1/2 lb shrimp scampi in fettichini with veggies... 1/4 lb 7% fat ground beef with 2 large sausage links in spaghetti.... 1/3 lb pot roast with red potatoes and carrots. Typically with powerade if its not eating with my whey protein shake. (Powerade carbs not factored in to 3400, fat grams calculated at 7 calories per gram not 9 as posted on this site. It seems to vary depending on where you look)

On occasion ill add either a protein bar after dinner before bed/gym or a ham and cheese hot pocket before bed/gym.

its not a super clean diet because I'm ok with gaining some fat... If it was possible lol. So that's my diet. Should I stack in peanut butter or something lol.

[Admin]

I've never used hcg. From most of the info I read it seemed optional compared to a AI or Serm. Almost most of the info I read said to base protein at .9g-1.5g per lb of body weight. In which case my max protein would be 225 grams. I'm at 270 so I thought that was more than enough. Doesn't extreme amounts of protein cause kidney issues or is that just a rumor? Also I absolutely hate pinning. It takes me about 30 min to mentally ready myself to do it. Thus why I prefer an enanthate. But it probably still causes my levels to spike and your suggestion would likely stabilize it. I would assume that is not only better for health and better gains correct?

My typical diet is a protein bar for pre breakfast. 20 g protein and 200 cal.
Breakfast: burrito or loose. 3 eggs with 3 pieces of sausage or bacon or 2 slices if ham with 2 prices of toast (whole wheat or sourdough) oj or Apple juice to drink ( I don't factor in the carbs from my drinks in my 3400 cal)
First lunch is tuna on whole wheat with miracle whip light and 2 serving of peanuts (powerade to drink dont count these carbs either)
2nd lunch is either a 1/3 lb turkey burger on whole wheat bun and BBQ sauce with 2 table spoons casein protein (or I do 1/2 lb teriyaki chicken or I do 1/2 lb BBQ sauce chicken) (I don't factor in the carbs on the sauce)
Post 2nd lunch is a Greek yogurt
gym Time
5 table spoons of whey protein and water shake (I should try to switch to milk but it used to give me stomach cramps years ago... Haven't tried recently cause I hate pain lol)

Dinner is really variable. 1/3 lb steak in beef strouganough with egg noodles. 1/3 lb Chicken in fetichinni alfredo. 3/4 lb tilapia or cod (parmesan or potatoe crushted. 1/2 lb shrimp scampi in fettichini with veggies... 1/4 lb 7% fat ground beef with 2 large sausage links in spaghetti.... 1/3 lb pot roast with red potatoes and carrots. Typically with powerade if its not eating with my whey protein shake. (Powerade carbs not factored in to 3400, fat grams calculated at 7 calories per gram not 9 as posted on this site. It seems to vary depending on where you look)

On occasion ill add either a protein bar after dinner before bed/gym or a ham and cheese hot pocket before bed/gym.

its not a super clean diet because I'm ok with gaining some fat... If it was possible lol. So that's my diet. Should I stack in peanut butter or something lol.

HCG: http://forums.steroidal.com/anabolic...ant-cycle.html

Your diet is why you are 150lbs. You shouldn't be using anabolic steroids, nor have done in the past. You need to work on your diet and then keep doing that for 8-12 months, get to 190-200lbs naturally and then think about steroids.

Eat like this:

Meal 1

• 8 whole eggs
• 2 cups oatmeal

Meal 2

• 8 oz cod
• 12 oz sweet potato
• 1 cup veggies

Meal 3

• 8 oz chicken
• 1 cups white rice
• 1 cup veggies

Meal 4

• 8 oz cod
• 1 cups rice
• 1 cup veggies
• 1 tbsp fish oil

Meal 5

• 8 oz steak
• 12 oz baked potato
• spinach salad

Meal 6

• 10 oz cod
• 1 cups rice
• salad

Meal 7

• 30 grams casein protein
• 10 egg-white omelet
• 1 cup veggies (onions, peppers, mushrooms)
• 1 tbsp omega-3 fish oil

[Admin]

I doubt you're a "hard gainer" - you just dont eat right.

I'm being brutally honest here with you, as your diet sucks and is why you are 150lbs at 5"10. It took me a long time to realise that your diet will determine 80% of what you look like, then you have cardio, training, supplements, steroids.

[warmouth]

750mg/wk of Test is way too much. You're stats aren't great to be honest, you could gain more naturally and then cycle when you have hit 200lbs.

Try injecting 250mg Test every 4-5 days and concentrate on getting your diet in order and get your weight up through that, not using excessive amounts of steroids.

Any amount, in my opinion based on his OP, is too much. I think he's better off waiting and dialing in his diet first. And not only that, stay with the diet for a long while before he starts so he can then successfully run a cycle. That's why I had to re post so I didn't look like I was flaming in my first post, as that's not at all what I was intending.