Tren based cycle, no test baby

[tryhardchris]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting on an internet forum, but i've been a longtime lurker of many forums for more than five years.

I've done 3 cycles in the past, and am currently 210 at 5"11. I started working out at 145 (18 years old) and started my first cycle at 170. (20 years old). I had been off for about six months and just did my second pin yesterday of my new cycle.

For experimental purposes and in hopes it will do to me what i've seen it do to people I know, I am trying a cycle based around tren, not test. I know many of you may think this to be absurd. I have ran a test only cycle and I get TERRIBLE acne from test and just don't like it, which is another factor that led to this experiment.

Cycle is as follows:

week 1 Trenbolone E 400mg/wk
weeks 2-6 Trenbolone E 300mg/wk
weeks 1-5 Anadrol 75mg/wk
weeks1-5 EQ cypionate 600mg/wk

weeks3-7 ANTI A by SD pharmaceuticals 2pills/day
weeks 7-12 Mucuna puriens 5g/day
One other specific product I can't remember the name of but completes the pct and is what I've always used along with people in my local area, always with good blood work results of course.

Diet will be 4k cals/day minimum. No cardio.
I'm going for an all out bulk.
Would enjoy hearing what you all think of that cycle with no test. The tren base theory has been used by more european bodybuilders commonly but everywhere really it seems to be more popular than a lot of forums will have you believe.

[Dan C]

I am a big proponent of the Trenbolone base theory. Read the Trenbolone profile on Steroidal.com that I wrote, I advocate low Testosterone and high primary compounds not just for Trenbolone but for almost every anabolic steroid. However, what you are doing is NOT the Trenbolone base theory. You're doing something risky and could cause yourself problems.

Your problem is you are electing to run NO form of Testosterone in your cycle AT ALL. I am not a fan of running bodybuilding doses of Testosterone during cycles, but I am also not a fan of excluding Testosterone completely. That is just a stupid move. It is absurd - without exogenous Testosterone, the exogenous Trenbolone that you are administering will totally shut down your body's own endogenous Testosterone production. This means that the essential and vital bodily functions that Testosterone and its metabolites govern are now being severely compromised. Now, you might ask the question "well, won't the Trenbolone take over for those functions? And won't it be better since Trenbolone is so much more powerful than Testosterone?". The answer is: NO!

Trenbolone may be 5x as anabolic as Testosterone, but that's all it pretty much has going for it. Trenbolone is a progestin with very strong anabolic effects - it is not a proper androgen for normal bodily function. And when I say 'normal bodily function', i'm talking about far more than your libido here. The human body and endocrine system is not that simple. Testosterone is vital for proper libido function, it is a regulator of cognitive and physical energy, it regulates the population of thromboxane A2 receptors on megakaryocytes and platelets and hence platelet aggregation in humans, it is essential for proper mental and psychological function, and MANY MANY more functions and I cannot list all of them here, a whole book could be written on it. If you want to know more, you can delve into the 23,000 word Testosterone article that I wrote on the main site. Just because Trenbolone is 'better than' Testosterone in one or two areas (anabolic tissue increases), does not mean that it is better than it in every single aspect and function. Trenbolone does diddly squat in many of those physiological functions that Testosterone governs.

This is why you require at least a normal physological level of Testosterone in your body during ANY cycle of ANYTHING. If you do this, you minimize/eliminate aromatization which is the cause for making a few Trenbolone side effects far worse. The idea here is proper balance and proper levels, NOT complete elimination of it.

[tryhardchris]

I am a big proponent of the Trenbolone base theory. Read the Trenbolone profile on Steroidal.com that I wrote, I advocate low Testosterone and high primary compounds not just for Trenbolone but for almost every anabolic steroid. However, what you are doing is NOT the Trenbolone base theory. You're doing something risky and could cause yourself problems.

Your problem is you are electing to run NO form of Testosterone in your cycle AT ALL. I am not a fan of running bodybuilding doses of Testosterone during cycles, but I am also not a fan of excluding Testosterone completely. That is just a stupid move. It is absurd - without exogenous Testosterone, the exogenous Trenbolone that you are administering will totally shut down your body's own endogenous Testosterone production. This means that the essential and vital bodily functions that Testosterone and its metabolites govern are now being severely compromised. Now, you might ask the question "well, won't the Trenbolone take over for those functions? And won't it be better since Trenbolone is so much more powerful than Testosterone?". The answer is: NO!

Trenbolone may be 5x as anabolic as Testosterone, but that's all it pretty much has going for it. Trenbolone is a progestin with very strong anabolic effects - it is not a proper androgen for normal bodily function. And when I say 'normal bodily function', i'm talking about far more than your libido here. The human body and endocrine system is not that simple. Testosterone is vital for proper libido function, it is a regulator of cognitive and physical energy, it regulates the population of thromboxane A2 receptors on megakaryocytes and platelets and hence platelet aggregation in humans, it is essential for proper mental and psychological function, and MANY MANY more functions and I cannot list all of them here, a whole book could be written on it. If you want to know more, you can delve into the 23,000 word Testosterone article that I wrote on the main site. Just because Trenbolone is 'better than' Testosterone in one or two areas (anabolic tissue increases), does not mean that it is better than it in every single aspect and function. Trenbolone does diddly squat in many of those physiological functions that Testosterone governs.

This is why you require at least a normal physological level of Testosterone in your body during ANY cycle of ANYTHING. If you do this, you minimize/eliminate aromatization which is the cause for making a few Trenbolone side effects far worse. The idea here is proper balance and proper levels, NOT complete elimination of it.

The things you are trying to explain to me here I already understand. (Trying to explain that tren wont taking over test's role) Obviously I'm not trying to make tren do test's job. There are thousands of logs of tren ONLY cycles and tren BASED stacks with NO testosterone, and great results, bloodwork included. I have done one myself and this is my second. It amazes me that people think test is necessary. I know many people who react poorly to test and feel test increases there sides, and therefore have NOT DONE TEST IN CYCLES FOR YEARS. Sounds crazy to some people, but it's not. Test is not a necissary part of a cycle, as long as proper supplementation is taken. Sure, most people (but not all) will be shut down DURING a cycle. But it doesn't last..

[tryhardchris]

And that is not the "trenbolone theory" that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the european tren stacks, which have always had NO form of test at all, and always included tren, which is basically the point.

[warmouth]

Welcome to the forum! Were all glad you are here. Id like to say that basing a cycle around tren is a great idea, but as Dan said, test needs to be included for your overall health. And the proposed cycle you have is not going to do much of anything besides shut down your natural test production. The enanthate ester typically takes up to 6 weeks, but for most 4, for blood plasma levels to reach their peak. If you plan such a short cycle, I would recommend the tren A over E, for obvious reasons. Listen to Dan on this one. It is perfectly fine to use a higher amount of tren with very little test, and this is where your "acne" problem lies. If test is kept minimal, then the estrogen conversion will be a non-issue. Tren, being very androgenic, can still cause severe acne in most users, but that is not always the case.

No man reacts poorly to testosterone. This isn't even a misconception. Test is the primary hormone that all of us men share. High test can be issues with some men, especially those who don't care about using the proper ancillaries to combat estrogenic side effects. Testosterone is as natural as is gets for us men. There are many uneducated people who will use "tren only" and "deca only" and even "dbol only" cycles. And while the might get great results, they usually don't tell you what else might be happening. Limp dick, bloat, hypertension, horrid lipids, no libido, etc.

Now, I am not going to lie to you and tell you it is uncommon for people to use "tren only" cycles. In fact, a lot of IFBB pros drop testosterone from their cycles a few weeks out from a show. However, they DO NOT cycle this way as their primary cycles go. But you are attempting an "all out bulk", so this is not idea. Tren being highly androgenic and anabolic seems like it is an idea bulking agent. While it can be, it will in no means even compare to test, deca, anadrol (A bombs), or even anavar in terms of mass. Ive used it, and Dan is an expert on it, and I would be willing to bet that he would say the same thing in that it isn't idea for an "all out bulk". It can severely inhibit your intake of calories. I am hardly ever hungry when using it. It can make you extremely lethargic (which would be almost certain if no test is used to combat this) which would make training suck.

That's my advice for now. Dan has it covered much more than I, and is far more knowledgeable on the subject than myself. I just want you to be safe and do this right. In my honest opinion, I feel you may need to hit the drawing board a little more. Ask us all the questions you have and read, read, read all of the profiles and side effects. While you have cycling experience, I feel you may not have the basic knowledge of how the drugs effect ones body and mind. Do all the research you can. We are all here to help you with this, so don't hesitate to ask anything! Good luck to you.

[warmouth]

Lastly, you can pin test cypionate or enanthate once a week if you desire. Even using as little as 75mgs weekly would be beneficial and no worry about bloat, estrogen induced gyno, or acne from the test.

[Admin]

The things you are trying to explain to me here I already understand. (Trying to explain that tren wont taking over test's role) Obviously I'm not trying to make tren do test's job. There are thousands of logs of tren ONLY cycles and tren BASED stacks with NO testosterone, and great results, bloodwork included. I have done one myself and this is my second. It amazes me that people think test is necessary. I know many people who react poorly to test and feel test increases there sides, and therefore have NOT DONE TEST IN CYCLES FOR YEARS. Sounds crazy to some people, but it's not. Test is not a necissary part of a cycle, as long as proper supplementation is taken. Sure, most people (but not all) will be shut down DURING a cycle. But it doesn't last..

Welcome to Steroidal.com!

Trenbolone and Deca-Durabolin will shutdown every single man within a couple of weeks.

Exogenous Testosterone will take 2-3 weeks depending on the dosage used.

That said, your going to shutdown testosterone on your Tren only cycle and there is a very high chance you will lose your sex drive, ability to obtain an erection and everything else that comes with low testosterone. This may not occur straight away, but it will.

I'd at least use HCG if you're going with this Tren only cycle, but I dont suggest it and you should run a small amount of testosterone, even 100-150mg/wk.

[Dan C]

For years (over half a century) cars we're not equipped with seatbelts or airbags. Plenty of people drove them everyday for years with no problems, but plenty of people also hurt themselves. Eventually we learned more and realized a better way of doing things, so we added seatbelts, and the eventually airbags to cars.

Back in the early days of anabolic steroid use and bodybuilding, nobody knew very much about these hormones, how they worked, and what exactly they did. Fast forward 70 years after Testosterone was first isolated and synthesized in a lab and we know A LOT more about these things, what they do, and how to properly use them. Our knowledge today has made anabolic steroid use safer than ever before (provided people follow proper guidelines and don't abuse and misuse it).

Knowing what we now know, I cannot with a straight face suggest the use of Trenbolone or Nandrolone without Testosterone. There are a few anabolic steroids that can be run solitary on their own without Testosterone safely, yes, but they are far and few in between and Trenbolone isn't one of them.

Can you run a 19-nor like Trenbolone on its own? Have people done it for decades? Absolutely. Is it optimal, healthy, and safe? No. You can do it, but just be aware of the potential problems that will result and be prepared for them if they happen.

[Admin]

The things you are trying to explain to me here I already understand. (Trying to explain that tren wont taking over test's role) Obviously I'm not trying to make tren do test's job. There are thousands of logs of tren ONLY cycles and tren BASED stacks with NO testosterone, and great results, bloodwork included. I have done one myself and this is my second. It amazes me that people think test is necessary. I know many people who react poorly to test and feel test increases there sides, and therefore have NOT DONE TEST IN CYCLES FOR YEARS. Sounds crazy to some people, but it's not. Test is not a necissary part of a cycle, as long as proper supplementation is taken. Sure, most people (but not all) will be shut down DURING a cycle. But it doesn't last..

Please expand on the bolded.

Thanks.

[warmouth]

Welcome to Steroidal.com!

Trenbolone and Deca-Durabolin will shutdown every single man within a couple of weeks.

Exogenous Testosterone will take 2-3 weeks depending on the dosage used.

That said, your going to shutdown testosterone on your Tren only cycle and there is a very high chance you will lose your sex drive, ability to obtain an erection and everything else that comes with low testosterone. This may not occur straight away, but it will.

I'd at least use HCG if you're going with this Tren only cycle, but I dont suggest it and you should run a small amount of testosterone, even 100-150mg/wk.

I was following a similar approach to this, and all I can say is that it didn't go too well. The user was all excited to try it this way and log it. He even was talking of how good he felt the first few weeks. Sadly, he kept the real problems to PMs and the board didn't really know what was going on. He did suffer greatly from a lack of libido, depression, terrible cardio, and a host of other ailments. He kept those side effects quiet on the open forum. Needless to say, he wont be doing it again.

[Admin]

I hope this thread has opened some eyes as to why adding a form of Testosterone is better, then not having a form, even if its a low dose of 100-150mg/wk.

[Blacky1979]

good post very informational
thanks